I
I have engaged in confrontations with the Libertines on three occasions within the past 19 years. However, in truth, I have only truly interacted with them once. Two of the encounters were interviews with Pete Doherty for his non-band related projects, Babyshambles and the Puta Madres. The initial meeting took place in a dilapidated hotel room in London in 2005. Doherty, then 26 years old, was sitting on a motorcycle and intermittently revving it while he was awake. Most of the time, he was asleep due to the presence of drugs and drug paraphernalia in the room. He had also used his own blood to write “ROUGH TRADE” on the wall. The most recent meeting, four years ago, showed Doherty in better physical condition and more sociable. However, he was still smoking crack and even attempted to punch me, although it narrowly missed. He then kissed my forehead as an apology and took me to his rundown home where he tried to sell me his belongings. Despite his best efforts, he still exuded a sense of wasted brilliance and unexpected charm.
I met Carl Barât, who is both a close friend and someone he sparred with, in 2006 while he was also recovering from his time with the Libertines. At the time, Barât had recently started a new band called Dirty Pretty Things and they were about to release their debut album. He was reserved, pleasant, and clearly struggling with deep sadness. Barât often spoke about his “Evil Carl” persona, the destructive part of him that seemed to have a negative outlook on life. In a different way, I felt concerned about Barât’s future, just as much as I did for Doherty’s.
After a hiatus of 22 years, the band has reunited for their fourth album. In 2015, following an 11-year gap since their last album, they released Anthems for Doomed Youth. The title, inspired by Wilfred Owen, was characteristic of the Libertines – poignant, poetic, and fueled by different forms of war. Their latest record, All Quiet on the Eastern Esplanade, also draws on war, literature, and trauma for its title. However, unlike their previous album, this one is a true representation of the classic Libertines sound. It features rollicking and boisterous tracks like Run Run Run, as well as writerly songs that reference 20th-century Hollywood (Night of the Hunter), and shimmering ballads (Songs They Never Play on the Radio).
Did you find it simple to record together once more?
Barât quickly responds with a “No.”
“Carl was adamant about having a strict no alcohol policy,” says Doherty. “He wanted everything to be pure. I don’t necessarily want to get drunk, but I do enjoy a glass of cider. However, he was against it. It added pressure because we had never done it this way before. The studio had always been a place for joy and festivities.”
Was Doherty taken aback by his ability to create while being sober and drug-free? “I felt a sense of relief and pride. To be able to tell my wife, ‘I’m not drinking’, made me proud.”
How does it feel to reunite? Doherty shoots me a disapproving glance. “I’m not sure if that inquiry is meaningful.”
Barât stated that they have reunited in 2010.
Doherty stated that he lacks knowledge in the subject matter.
I am being targeted by a group. To clarify, it has been nearly ten years since the release of our last album.
They exchange a secretive glance.
“It’s actually a better narrative to say that we haven’t been together,” Barât states. They come to the agreement that they quite enjoy this version of events.
Doherty sweetly expresses his enjoyment when someone unfamiliar joins us. His moods still change rapidly, just like they always have.
According to them, the unique aspect is that this is their first time enjoying the fruits of their labor. Doherty shares, “On our way up the M23, we actually played the new album all the way through. We sang along, had some fun, and even shed some tears. It’s something we’ve never done before – listening to our own record on a car ride.”
Barât stated, “I am not laughing or crying.”
Doherty commented, “That must be quite impactful.”
He has experienced numerous moments in his life where he believed he was done with music, he explains. However, he always ends up going back to his guitar. He compares it to a calling, similar to the priesthood, that will continue to attract certain individuals.
Barât compared it to a call to arms.
Doherty instructs. “Why do you constantly focus on the negative?”
What caused them to shed tears while listening to the album?
While traveling on the Westway, the song “Songs They Never Play on the Radio” started playing and it sparked a rush of memories linked to the A40 and London as a whole.
The music gradually dissipates into a jumbled mix of conversations and merriment.
Barât reflects, “Even in that moment, I thought to myself, ‘Wow, we truly have a great connection and enjoyed each other’s company. It was all genuine.'”
“I dislike the term ‘fun’,” Doherty grumbles. Despite this, they continue to bicker like quarreling partners.
W
We met at a photography studio in London. They are dressed in fashionable suits for the photoshoot. Barât looks mostly the same – slender, in shape, with shiny brown hair like a pop star. Doherty appears much changed. Two decades ago, he was thin, youthful, and had delicate features. Nowadays, his hair is gray and he has a large build. When Doherty gains weight, it typically indicates that he is not using drugs. It’s when he becomes very thin that we should be concerned.
Currently, he resides in the northern region of France alongside his spouse, Katia, and their infant daughter, Billie-May. While he has two other children, he acknowledges that this is the first instance in which he has been fully involved as a father. This is mainly due to his sobriety. “I eliminated the major toxins from my life and my well-being greatly improved. However, I soon learned that alcohol, cheese, and sugar can be just as detrimental and that I was actually healthier when I was addicted to heroin.”
Barât: “Gluttony.”
Doherty admitted to being a bit of an overeater and revealed that he has been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. He also acknowledged that he currently struggles with controlling his cholesterol levels due to a lack of discipline.
Is Barât shocked that Doherty is still present?
“Am I shocked that Peter is still living? No, he is too intelligent to perish. He never had any intention of dying.”
Doherty expressed a desire to witness the outcome of events and shared that he does not turn off the television during election night, as he wants to know the final results.
Is Doherty shocked that Barât is still present?
“I used to have concerns about him, especially in the beginning… He wasn’t very consistent.”
It’s noteworthy that individuals have shown greater concern for Doherty, however, he may have been the more resilient one.
Barât is now feeling offended. He points out that he had to overcome a difficult situation, which required a lot of strength. Both individuals have displayed great vulnerability and determination.
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Their relationship is one of the most tumultuous romances in the world of pop music. They first crossed paths while attending different universities in London. Barât, who was a year ahead, was studying drama at Brunel while Doherty was pursuing English at Queen Mary. Both eventually dropped out of school. Doherty’s sister, AmyJo, became close friends with Barât and introduced them. According to Doherty, his sister described Barât as an attractive guy with a ponytail, six-pack abs, and great guitar skills. Doherty immediately fell for him and saw him as a mix of Raskolnikov and Johnny Marr – driven and unpredictable. He was impressed by his strong convictions and tendency to stir up heated debates and even destroy things.
What method did he use to cause destruction?
“Irritation consumed him, yet there was also a imaginative and lovely aspect. I attempted to establish a friendship, but he was impenetrable. I convinced myself that I was unworthy of being his companion, so I persistently pursued him. That is the reality, isn’t it?” He gazes at Barât.
Barât stated that it occurred 27 years in the past.
Doherty admits that he typically isn’t the one to pursue, but in this situation, it was necessary. He had a strong desire to form a band, and Barât was the ideal fit for it.
“I was aware that I required an attractive guitarist. However, Carl was not your typical guy. He was like an impenetrable fortress, a combination of Raskolnikov and Johnny Marr. I find that quite appealing!” He laughs, satisfied with his comparison.
Barât: “I am unsure of the identity of the first individual.”
Doherty stated, “The character Raskolnikov from the novel Crime and Punishment.”
Barât exclaimed, “Oh yes, I have caught you now!”
What caused Barât’s anger at that moment?
“I experienced a lot of unhappiness during my childhood, which is a topic I prefer not to discuss. It is possible that I was naturally prone to anger from birth. However, I have been actively fighting against both my anger and depression that stemmed from it.” Has the individual’s depression improved? “Yes, I am still here, aren’t I?”
He has been receiving therapy for nine years and believes it has been beneficial. He states, “It has made things more bearable. I am not as irritable as before and I am more in control of my emotions.” He speaks rapidly with a nasal tone, making it difficult to understand him at times. I mention that his speech has not slowed down over time. He responds, “No, there is still a lot happening in my mind. They now refer to it as ADHD.”
Doherty takes a drag from his cigarette in a dismissive manner. “This interview is a pain.”
Barât dismisses him, stating, “I recently completed a screening that indicated it is probable.” He smirks, adding, “My spouse consistently leaves books with titles such as Managing ADHD in a Marriage.”
Doherty stated that in the past, people would simply refer to it as personality, but now there are various terms used for it.
I inform Doherty that he appears to be more aware of himself now that he’s sober. He agrees and admits that during our previous meeting, he was so intoxicated that he got carried away. Now, he’s feeling defensive and anticipates the potential consequences of our conversation. He explains that there are two options for handling this situation – either try to charm me and build a strong relationship so I won’t betray him, or simply choose not to read the article, which he has done for the past 21 years.
Out of nowhere, he becomes more alert and inquires about the person he was when we initially crossed paths. “Was the hotel located in Brick Lane?” he recalls. At that time, I was content and carefree, but now I don’t have the same adrenaline rush or dependency on substances. They used to be my means of coping. Nowadays, I find joy in spending time with Gladys (his amazing mastiff mix, who is here with us today), walking in the woods, taking care of our baby, and indulging in a glass of cider and a cigarette. However, I am quite curious about my past self… I wouldn’t mind being a fly on the wall during those days. Although, it might just break my heart.”
Barât expressed how they were heartbroken and felt like insignificant observers. He spoke with a tone of distress and anger.
Doherty expressed that they are not interested in revisiting the topic at hand. While they usually find pleasure in reminiscing about such matters, they do not believe it is beneficial to do so today. They questioned the intention behind asking these questions.
I am attempting to understand your current circumstances and any transitions you may have experienced, I state.
“Boss, he’s got you there,” Barât says with a strong Bronx inflection.
Barât eventually succumbed to the charms of the young Doherty, leading them to form the Libertines due to their shared love for poetry, punk, and chaos. Despite coming from vastly different backgrounds, with Barât growing up in a council estate in Basingstoke and Doherty’s family moving around due to his father’s job in the Royal Signals, they became united. Barât’s parents split up, with his mother being a CND activist and his father transitioning from an artist to working in an arms factory. Doherty, on the other hand, grew up with the intention of following in his father’s footsteps and joining the military. However, both boys ultimately gave up on their plans for university. While Barât discovered drugs at a young age, Doherty only started using them much later, initially only to impress Barât.
Barât was undoubtedly the superior musician. He had aspirations of wowing the crowd with his performance, but he hadn’t anticipated his nerves getting in the way. “I was extremely introverted. When I finally reached the level I had been striving for my whole life, I would be paralyzed by self-doubt and fear. I couldn’t fully deliver the way Peter wanted. I was thinking, ‘Oh my God, this is absolutely horrifying.'”
Was Doherty shy?
“Was he timid?” Barât chuckles. “No, he was not timid! He is not familiar with the concept of shyness.” He explains that the only time he has seen a glimpse of it is when the conversation becomes inappropriate in front of Katia. Doherty agrees, stating that something from his childhood has ingrained a reflexive response in him. “She curses freely and is not easily offended, but for some reason, I still hold onto Victorian standards.”
Is it because of your father’s influence? “Yes! He’s the same. It’s odd,” Doherty states.
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Barât stated, “It is quite prudish, don’t you think?”
Doherty: “Yeah. Prudishness.”
Is Doherty’s relationship with his father still strained? “What is the reason for asking?”
I introduce myself as an interviewer and explain that I am here to ask questions because I am curious.
Barât smiles and says in a Bronx accent, “He’s got you there, boss.”
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“I frequently bring up that topic,” Doherty explains. “When Carl and I would discuss fathers in the beginning, we connected deeply over our shared struggles. I wish I could ask him, but I don’t think I could ever say, ‘How is our relationship with our fathers?'”
He pauses and asks, “Whose concern is it? What significance does it hold? Is it truly important to you?”
Sure, I am interested in discovering what motivates you and shapes your identity.
He becomes more gentle. “I have a strong love for him and I believe that a significant aspect of my transformation in how I live my life, especially since getting married and quitting heroin, is to gain his acceptance.” And now Doherty is crying. I have never witnessed him in this state before. “I think it’s overwhelming for him to overlook.”
Barât gently reassures, “You don’t need to go to such lengths.”
Doherty admits that he has made efforts to improve their relationship, but deep down he still feels unsure. He believes that only scoring a hat-trick in the World Cup final or earning a million from selling his album would make his father forgive him. Whenever he is with his daughter and wife, his father questions if he is still pursuing a career in music. While his father would be impressed by extravagant gestures like picking him up in a limo or arriving in a helicopter, Doherty is content with writing songs that he is proud of. He acknowledges that he may still be searching for his father’s approval, and tears up as he reflects on the significance it holds for him.
Did he acknowledge your achievements, or did he only focus on the negative? There is a pause before he responds. “I believe he believes I had the ability to succeed but chose not to.”
Barât embraces Doherty and expresses admiration for his ability to do everyday tasks that he never thought possible. He acknowledges that it may be difficult for Doherty to express his feelings, just as it is for him. Doherty responds with a smile and mentions that they are currently engaging in a therapeutic session for Pete.
I believe that managing to do everyday tasks, making ends meet, and caring for loved ones is a significant accomplishment in life.
“It’s tough, isn’t it?” Doherty remarked. “I used to believe I could survive on my own. But now I crave companionship and someone with plumbing skills.”
Pete, can you do DIY? Barât chuckled.
Doherty has regained his health. “Fundamental plumbing, yes, when obstructions occur.”
“What are your skills?” Barât inquires incredulously.
“I have the ability to remove blockages,” Doherty proclaims boldly. “I can clear blockages in the U-bend located under the sink.”
Barât asked, “How did you do that?”
Doherty explained that to handle the situation, one must use a bucket to collect all the debris and then things should be manageable for a while.
Barât: “Do you recall the time when you urinated in the sink at the party in Harlesden and it was filled with dishes? And then someone stole my Gibson guitar?”
Oh, joyful times. Perhaps.
T
The Libertines were not a safe band. They were wild, untamed, and unpredictable. The group consisted of four members – Barât, Doherty, Hassall on bass, and Powell on drums – just as they are today. Both Barât and Doherty were lead singers and guitarists, with Barât’s style being more rock while Doherty’s was more soulful. They would often share a microphone, similar to the iconic duo Lennon and McCartney. However, any further comparisons between The Libertines and The Beatles end there. While The Beatles achieved worldwide success, evolved, and left an impressive body of work, The Libertines fought, remained stagnant, and eventually fell apart. They had one album that reached the top of the charts (their self-titled second album) and four singles that made it into the top 20 between 2003 and 2004. Their most popular songs, such as “Time for Heroes” and “What a Waster,” were filled with the intense drama and self-destruction often associated with young artists like Goethe. On the other hand, their biggest hits, “Can’t Stand Me Now” and “What Became of the Likely Lads,” told the story of a relationship that had already crumbled – a successful story that had become a thing of the past.
The Libertines disbanded in 2004, but there was a unique quality to their music. They embraced a poetic and cultural view of England, steering clear of nationalism. They also aimed to bridge the gap between fans and band by playing intimate shows in basement flats. Their performances were both chaotic and uplifting, reflecting their reckless and nihilistic attitude. The band, especially Doherty, often made headlines in tabloids due to his tumultuous romance with supermodel Kate Moss, drug use, and bizarre on-stage antics (such as leaving a concert mid-song in 2004).
After being temporarily removed from the band in 2003, Doherty’s troubles continued to make headlines. He was imprisoned that same year for burglarizing Barât’s residence and stealing various items, including an antique guitar, a laptop, a video recorder, a CD player, and books. In 2006, he was caught on camera running past actor Mark Blanco, who had fallen to his death on the pavement below. The circumstances surrounding Blanco’s death at the party they were attending and whether he jumped or was pushed off a balcony remain unclear. In 2011, the Crown Prosecution Service determined that there was insufficient evidence to charge anyone in connection with Blanco’s death. Later that year, Doherty was sentenced to six months in jail after pleading guilty to cocaine possession.
After our last meeting in 2019, he completely changed his life. During that time, he was taking a break from Katia. However, they reconciled and he made a big gesture to show his love for her: he stopped using drugs and began receiving opiate blocker injections. These injections prevent opioids from causing pleasurable effects like euphoria. (He had previously received an opiate blocker implant in 2006, but removed it using his hands and a knife.) Has this change been significant? “Yes. Despite my determination, I don’t believe I am ready to give it up. The people around me definitely prefer me to have it.”
“Nicely done,” Barât compliments, giving him a pat on the knee. “Keep it up!”
What is Barât’s opinion on how Doherty has evolved over time? “Um…” Barât begins.
Doherty: “Be honest.”
Barât: “I was going to mention, before I was interrupted, that he has grown stronger in various aspects. He is now capable of accepting love in ways he couldn’t before, if we want to get to the root of it. As his friend, it has made things easier for me, which is a great bonus because it allows me to lower my guard. It’s not just a simple and joyful love-fest. It’s still challenging and rough, and there is a darkness that needs to be navigated.”
The darkness is not only present in Doherty. When I first met Barât, I perceived that he was deeply troubled – even though he was in a better state than before. “I still face struggles,” Barât admits. “I’ve had my share of challenges and I still bear the scars.”
Doherty reflects on the unique intersection of his life, being a man from a disciplined background with a romantic dream, and the person he met who came from a tumultuous upbringing and craved stability. Despite their differences, they found solace in each other during difficult times.
What is Doherty’s opinion on the biggest change in Barât? “At a fundamental level, he now has a physical place to call home. This is a significant development. Personally, I preferred living a transient lifestyle, couch surfing and squatting. I don’t believe Carl shared the same sentiment.”
Barât expressed that his lifelong desire has always been to feel normal, but on his own terms. He wanted to be able to succeed in society and exist on this planet without feeling like he had to give up and give in to his struggles. However, after becoming a father to two children, aged nine and 13, with his partner Edie Langley, he finally found a sense of belonging. He believes that having kids has forced him to confront his depression and not let it consume him. This realization has made him question the purpose of his previous struggles, which he now sees as somewhat paranoid.
Doherty was without a permanent residence for a significant period, depending on the kindness of acquaintances and romantic partners for shelter. In 2017, Barât made a financial investment in a beachfront hotel in Margate, in part to provide Doherty with a place to stay. They named it The Albion Rooms, after the initial apartment they shared, and had it renovated with a studio built on the premises. This is where the latest album was produced.
Is it possible that this album will finally bring them financial success? According to Doherty, in theory, yes. However, he also mentions outstanding tax payments from 15 years ago and the fact that every time he thinks he’s made some money, it quickly disappears. When asked if it’s due to taxes, he confirms and explains that he has always paid them but it’s complicated now that he lives in France and has child support to consider. He compares his financial struggles to the myth of Sisyphus constantly rolling a boulder uphill. Doherty has always believed that one day they would release an album that would sell enough to alleviate their financial worries, but it hasn’t happened yet.
Barât: “The point is, if you’re not seeking yacht money, as long as you can live in a house and avoid unpleasant work, that’s all you really need, right?”
The publicist for the band, Tony, informs us that our time is limited. Tony has been collaborating with Barât and Doherty for a long time. I inquire if he has any questions. After some consideration, he asks, “Is there anything you would have done differently?”
Doherty lets out a deep sigh. He expresses how surreal and fantastical the situation is. He recalls a specific instance where he was unable to finish performing the song “Can’t Stand Me Now” due to being under the influence and feeling disconnected from reality. He had hoped for a larger, more impactful outcome but ultimately, it was just him and possibly a few others who were harmed or faced consequences.
Dead, I say.
“There are a lot of people who have died.”
I inquire with Doherty if he has any remorse for fleeing from the location of Blanco’s passing in 2006. He responds, “Oh, my goodness!” as if he’s been struck. He claims it’s unjust because the topic has been brought up so belatedly. “If you had brought that up earlier…”
Barât completes the statements on his behalf. “You would have exited the room.”
Doherty expresses reluctance, coming to a halt and acknowledging the gravity of the situation. He is aware that he will always be haunted by the surveillance footage of him, his then-girlfriend Kate Russell-Pavier, and “minder” Jonathan Jeannevol passing by the body on the ground and then fleeing. Three weeks after Blanco’s death, Jeannevol went to Bethnal Green police station and admitted to killing him. However, he later retracted his statement, citing stress as the reason for falsely confessing.
“I regret running away, I really do. I should have stayed and waited for the police, instead of getting rid of all my drugs. It’s just common sense, isn’t it? Running down the street without any shoes on… The memory of that night still haunts me.”
W
We are back with the release of our new album. Although it may have been a long wait, the music truly reflects a band that has grown and evolved. Is there a newfound sense of trust among the members? “I never had trust in him to begin with,” Barât responds.
Doherty expresses concern about the personal and profound nature of these questions. It is possible that we do not have the answers ourselves, nor do we want to know. Our music is something we are both passionate about and trust in. We did not enter the studio with pre-written songs, but rather spent a significant amount of time typing them out together. This has built our belief and trust in the album. Perhaps in the future, we will address these issues through group therapy, but for now, we must focus on our upcoming nine-day tour on a bus together.
“This is the type of in-depth analysis of friendship that might make things uncomfortable – and I don’t want to make Carl uncomfortable. I want him to be happy and comfortable that he’s doing this. The more we delve into these things, the more I’m likely to say something stupid to try to get a cheap joke, and it won’t be a cheap joke to Carl, it will be something hurtful, so I don’t want to do this.” There is a painful sincerity to Doherty’s words.
Did Barât believe he would never come across another collaborator like Doherty? Is his statement still valid? “I believe it remains true,” he responds.
“Um,” Doherty responds with another audible exhale. “Do you want the truthful answer?” Yes, I do. “Perhaps I don’t consciously consider it while writing the song, but my first thought after is always, ‘I wonder what Carl’s opinion will be on this?’ – whoever I may be co-writing with. The genuine truth is that everything I write is for Carl.”
Source: theguardian.com
