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Actor Willem Dafoe is currently in his New York apartment, surrounded by two pieces of artwork. Behind him is a painting of his father, originally created as a prop for a film that required portraits of his family members. Dafoe comments, “I had a good relationship with my father, so there he is.” During our Zoom conversation, he turns the camera to show another piece of art beside him – a photograph of his friend and occasional collaborator, Marina Abramović, posing as a priest over a naked body decorated with organs. Dafoe remarks, “This serves as a contrast to the painting behind me. Do you see it?”
Dafoe is not the type of actor who likes to talk about his long morning workout routine, but instead prefers to focus on more important topics. We are here to discuss Poor Things, the amazing new film by Yorgos Lanthimos, which is based on Alasdair Gray’s novel. Dafoe plays the role of a brilliant and reclusive scientist named Godwin Baxter, who goes by the name “God” for short. He creates life in the form of Emma Stone’s character, Bella. This film is a beautiful and thrilling journey and it could potentially earn Dafoe his fifth Oscar nomination, as he wears heavy prosthetics to portray God. He received his first nomination for Platoon in 1987 and has been consistently working in the industry since 1980, appearing in over 150 films in five decades. He has collaborated with some of the most talented directors in the business, including David Lynch, Wes Anderson, Werner Herzog, Paul Schrader, and Martin Scorsese.
Dafoe, who is 68 years old, is currently making a brief return to New York. He originally moved to the city in 1977 at the age of 22, with the goal of becoming a commercial theatre actor. However, he ended up becoming involved with an artistic community and joined an experimental theatre group called the Wooster Group instead. It was during this time that he met his first partner, with whom he had a son in 1982. While he has lived in New York on and off since then, he currently spends less time there. In the early 2000s, he married an Italian director named Giada Colagrande, who is 48 years old. They now reside in Rome together. Dafoe describes going back to New York as stepping into a different life, as he has Italian friends and family and is fluent in Italian. He also mentions their shared love for animals.
We were originally scheduled to have a conversation during the summer, but Poor Things was delayed due to the strike involving the actors. This also resulted in Dafoe not working for approximately four months. “I am someone who enjoys being busy,” he explains, “so the break was longer than I prefer.” However, it was manageable thanks to his small farm. “I am always unsure of how much to share about this,” he admits cautiously, “but essentially, I was a hobby farmer.”
I am certain that I am not the sole individual who desires to gain more knowledge. “I see. Well, perhaps I can share a little bit with you.” Dafoe had never previously owned pets, but now, he possesses “numerous animals” and a vegetable garden located just outside of Rome. Why does he choose to keep animals? “I am primarily a vegetarian, so I do it for the enjoyment of their companionship and to provide them with a good quality life, although it may seem idealistic.” The farm collects eggs from the chickens and turkeys, and wool from the sheep and alpacas. At one point, he mentions “other individuals” on the farm. “Did you hear that?” he exclaims, correcting himself. “I meant the animals!”
Several months back, Mark Ruffalo, who co-starred with Dafoe in Poor Things, shared a photo of the two of them with an alpaca, causing a stir on the internet. Dafoe confirms that the alpaca in the photo was indeed his. When asked about their personalities, he responds, “Absolutely. Each one is unique. While some sheep and goats may just blend in, every alpaca has a distinctive character and a special relationship with their owner.”
The lifestyle of a gentleman farmer is quite different from that of Hollywood or the New York theatre scene. Despite the differences, the farmer compares it to being at the theatre as he starts his day with a lot of activity and responsibilities. He believes that keeping busy is important, as idle hands can lead to trouble. However, he dislikes talking about his farming lifestyle because of a past experience on set. In 1980, he was in a movie called Heaven’s Gate and it was his first time on a Hollywood set. He was used to being part of the downtown crowd in New York, where discussions revolved around poetry, film, and philosophy. To his surprise, on set everyone was only talking about their pets, horses, and ranches. He found this uninteresting and now, ironically, he has become one of them.
Dafoe has consistently occupied a space between the popular and more experimental realms, influencing the equilibrium over time. The year 1977 in New York City has been romanticized to a great extent. Was Dafoe involved in that particular scene? “I was definitely present, but we were also somewhat isolated because it was a difficult lifestyle and survival was a challenge. We didn’t have the financial means to frequent Max’s Kansas City all the time. We would visit CBGBs and the Mudd Club, but it wasn’t a regular occurrence.”
Upon his initial arrival, he had recently completed a tour of Europe with a traveling theater group and had aspirations of becoming a professional stage actor. However, he soon realized that he lacked interest in pursuing this path and instead surrounded himself with individuals who lacked ambition. It wasn’t until much later that people began to prioritize a career in the industry. This individual has since had a successful and enduring career. Was there a sense of elitism surrounding the concept of success? Undoubtedly. The pursuit of the “brass ring” was seen as meaningless, so why strive for it? Instead, the focus shifted to creating our own path and defining our own version of success. This perspective holds some truth.
Dafoe has collaborated with numerous directors, many of whom have utilized his talents in challenging ways, whether it be in the psychologically disturbing works of Lars von Trier or the raw and unsettling folk tales of Robert Eggers. He has portrayed Jesus Christ and also starred in Antichrist. Additionally, he has appeared in several blockbuster films such as Speed 2 and Spider-Man. Without meaning to be impolite, I must say that you have also achieved a great level of success. “Yes, I have been very fortunate. However, I do want to mention that I am always surprised when people achieve success and continue to see themselves as outsiders.” He chuckles. “I find that to be quite rude. I don’t want to be that person.”
I am curious about Dafoe’s thoughts on modern films. He has previously mentioned that when he starred in Spider-Man in 2002, it was a rare occurrence for a movie to be based on a comic book. However, now, superhero movies are dominant and some argue that there is no longer a middle ground between blockbuster films and independent films. Initially, he deflects the question and states that he doesn’t think about it too much because he is always occupied with work. But then, he becomes more open and states, “When challenges like strikes arise, I have to stop and consider my approach, otherwise I’ll be navigating blindly.”
Listen, baby, this is what Dafoe has figured out. The easy one, he says, is that people watch films differently now, at home, rather than at the cinemas, which are closing down. “Which is tragic, because the kind of attention that people give at home isn’t the same. More difficult movies, more challenging movies can not do as well, when you don’t have an audience that’s really paying attention. That’s a big thing. I miss the social thing of where movies fit in the world. You go see a movie, you go out to dinner, you talk about it later, and that spreads out. People now go home, they say, ‘Hey, honey, let’s watch something stupid tonight,’ and they flip through and they watch five minutes of 10 movies, and they say, forget it, let’s go to bed. Where’s that discourse found?”
The film industry has also undergone changes. Rather than following the traditional methods, movies are now being funded by toy companies and other organizations. These companies have the expertise in production and use the films as a means to showcase their products. With the rise of streaming services, there is a growing concern about their dominance in both production and distribution. The speaker admits that he is not well-informed about these changes and suggests that his friends who work in Hollywood have a better understanding. He considers himself an unreliable source for a comprehensive overview of the situation.
It seems like he has a good understanding from my perspective. “Just in terms of social dynamics,” he explains, “but I am not familiar with the business aspect. I have noticed that there are now more intermediaries involved. The bold and daring producers of the past seem to have dwindled, although there are some shrewd ones still around. However, it’s not as common to come across the eccentric and passionate individuals who would go to extreme lengths to finance and complete a film. They are becoming harder to come by.”
Dafoe always has multiple projects in progress. One of his recent films is Gonzo Girl, which marks Patricia Arquette’s directorial debut. In the film, Dafoe portrays a wild and eccentric character, not a producer, but a writer similar to Hunter S Thompson, whose creativity has been overshadowed by indulgence. Although the character is inspired by Thompson, Dafoe did not want to simply imitate him. He finds biopics that attempt to imitate real-life characters to be frustrating and off-putting, as they often become a showcase for the actor’s performance rather than an authentic portrayal. He also dislikes actors who come across as desperate for attention.
In a field full of individuals with excessive self-importance, it seems that Dafoe has a balanced ego. He responds, “I hope your statement is accurate. It’s necessary to have some sense of self to motivate us to get up and take action. However, we must not deceive ourselves into believing we are superior or rigidly cling to the idea of being exceptional.”
Is he someone who is connected to spirituality? “Oh, my goodness,” he exclaims with mock shock, but he entertains the inquiry. “I am fascinated by the desire for spiritual fulfillment and religious beliefs, but it is not appropriate to discuss these matters openly. It can lead to getting caught up in defining yourself solely by these beliefs.”
One instance is when he mentioned his 40-year yoga practice in interviews. It holds significant importance in his life. However, he prefers not to discuss it as it may inadvertently make others feel inferior for not having the same experience. In his words, mentioning it can make one feel like an “asshole.”
Is it beneficial for actors to maintain a sense of privacy? “I believe so. I find that when I am aware of an actor’s controversial political views, it affects my perception of their performance.” When discussing his role in Poor Things, he is frequently questioned about the use of prosthetics. “As soon as I catch myself talking about spending hours in makeup and early call times, I realize that it takes away from the audience’s immersion in the film.”
I am curious if Dafoe, with his extensive resume of over 150 movies, his involvement in theatre and art, and his ownership of alpacas, easily becomes disinterested. He responds with a quick “not at all!” and adds that he is never bored. In fact, he sees it as one of the benefits of aging. In his younger years, he often felt bored and restless, but now he always has something to occupy his time and wishes there were more hours in a day. This sounds like a desirable way to live. Dafoe explains that this mindset has come with age, as other things have diminished, but overall it is a fair trade-off.
What has he misplaced? “Not a significant amount, perhaps some muscle definition and eyebrow thickness, and your lips may become thinner. I’m kidding, but not really…” He chuckles. “When you’re younger, the future seems wide open. But as you get older, you start to think about the limitations more.” He used to be the youngest person in every group. “Now I’m the oldest. I constantly hear about people I’ve worked with passing away, and it’s like, what happened? And then I remember, oh they were 82 years old,” he explains. Younger individuals are often driven by a desire to find their place in the world. “I don’t believe it’s a coincidence that there are different stages of life. I don’t have a preference for one over the other, but not everything has to happen when you’re young. A lot can still happen later on.”
It appears that Dafoe is currently very busy. He will soon begin working on another movie with Nadia Latif, who was previously the associate director at the Young Vic. He has already completed another film with Lanthimos and Stone. Additionally, he is involved in Beetlejuice 2. A few days ago, Dafoe accidentally mentioned that he will be playing an undead detective. He expresses regret and asks for a favor, admitting that he had shared this information two days ago and now realizes that Tim Burton may not appreciate him revealing details about the movie.
He chuckled. “I was vulnerable in that moment, you know! I revealed the secret, as others would say.”
Helen Seamons, the fashion editor, was assisted by Jennie Roberts from Frank Agency for grooming using Woolf Kings X and Glossier. Sam Deaman served as the fashion assistant while Nick James took care of tailoring. The photography team included Alex Cornes, Philip Banks, and Brandon Hepworth with the shoot taking place at Stockwell Studio.
The film Poor Things will be released in theaters on January 12th.
Source: theguardian.com
